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> I purchased the Legion Supliment months before 8th came out, does legion book special rules still work?
Deb
post Jun 18 2017, 05:13 PM
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After spending a lot of money on the legion supplement so I could field my Night lords and my Emperor's Children battle companies in force, and make them a lot more like they traditionally should be, I find out that the new 8th edition might have removed all the special rules for each legion. Alpha legion with their formations, Night Lords with their fear rules, and for my friend with his (inherited from myself) 400 Nurgle daemons and Deathguard minis, he has lost the re-roll failed FNP rolls of 1.

Simply put, do I put all my old books in the "store in a well ventilated dry cupboard until they become valuable" pile, or can the legion book, and other supplements still be used? I doubt they are still useable.

Also FW better hurry up with releases or downloads for many of their specialist vehicles/ aircraft/titans.

I want to be able to play games with my phantom titan, my Zarachnyel, and for my orks - Zadsnark Da Rippa.

So many FW minis, that can ot be used at the moment.


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Hapless Peon
post Jun 18 2017, 05:25 PM
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Are you talking about the FW 30K Legions supplement? If so then nothing has changed, 30K is going to continue with 7th ed rules from my understanding.

All FW units that can be used in 8th are in 4 new supplements "Imperial Armour: Index of Chaos/Xenos/etc"


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morsla
post Jun 18 2017, 07:55 PM
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Traitor Legions, as a 7th Ed supplement, is no longer usable in 8th.

Currently (using the four Index books), all that most of the legions do is act as a keyword ("Emperor's Children" or "Night Lords") that limits the effectiveness of buffs to other units of the same legion. When codex books come out, things like Marine chapters, Chaos legions, Ork clans, Tau septs and Eldar craftworlds are likely to get more detailed rules to differentiate between them.


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khanoth
post Jun 18 2017, 08:10 PM
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One of my mates is lamenting the fact that his 2000 point DG army is now worth only 750 points in 8th - no Obliterators, no Terminators etc...has pissed him off big time.

And sure the codex books will no doubt change this but that could be in another two years.


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morsla
post Jun 18 2017, 08:25 PM
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In the meantime, there's nothing stopping him from fielding the lot under the "Chaos" faction keyword, with a secondary detachment to cover the DG-specific stuff though...

I'm a bit sad that I never got to field the Alpha Legion with their infiltration rules, but I can still build an Elite-heavy army with lots of chosen in it, and a detachment of cultists.


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ĆON
post Jun 18 2017, 08:36 PM
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I'd assume that with Death Guard and Primaris Marines in the starter box; both will be getting a codex in the next few months. The WD out in less than 3 weeks hints at a new marine codex; likely the Primaris Marines; and Death Guard are likely to follow.


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khanoth
post Jun 18 2017, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE(morsla @ Jun 18 2017, 08:25 PM) *

In the meantime, there's nothing stopping him from fielding the lot under the "Chaos" faction keyword, with a secondary detachment to cover the DG-specific stuff though...


Nothing stopping him? His entire army is nerfed bruh. His DG bikers and DG terminators can no longer benefit from the Death Guard Special rules, he can no longer use Plague Marines as troops...and the entire army is painted Nurgle green!

In other words...he hasn't spent over $600 over the past year for his army to become a "secondary detachment"

This appears to be a blatant cash grab by GW- making sure that people have to buy more minis so they can actually bring valid armies to the table.


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QUOTE(Dice Array @ Jul 9 2014, 05:25 PM) *

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"Let me tell you something about humans, nephew: They're a wonderful, friendly people - as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working."

"But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those friendly, intelligent, wonderful people...will become as nasty and as violent as the most blood-thirsty Klingon." Quark from: The Siege of AR-558
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Rice Array
post Jun 18 2017, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE(khanoth @ Jun 18 2017, 10:05 PM) *

Nothing stopping him? His entire army is nerfed bruh. His DG bikers and DG terminators can no longer benefit from the Death Guard Special rules, he can no longer use Plague Marines as troops...and the entire army is painted Nurgle green!

In other words...he hasn't spent over $600 over the past year for his army to become a "secondary detachment"

This appears to be a blatant cash grab by GW- making sure that people have to buy more minis so they can actually bring valid armies to the table.


You can still field the terminators and bikes. You don't need troops in 8th. The other dudes can still be fielded. I understand that for some gamers 'nerfed' is equivalent to 'cannot be fielded' but this is strictly untrue. You can still field the terminators and bikes.

The army isn't a 'secondary detachment'. You can still field the terminators and bikes. What is a 'secondary detatchment'. Do you know what you're talking about. You can still field the terminators and bikes. Why does the amount of money spent have anything to do with it. The miniatures still exist and are fieldable. You can still field the terminators and bikes. You can still field the terminators and bikes.

It is not necessary to spend more money to bring the valid army to the table, if anything the opposite is true. What is wrong with you. Do you read. Can you read.


Seriously you can still field the terminators and bikers. Has anyone actually read the rules. You can still field the terminators and bikers. You can still field the terminators and bikers. They just don't get the Death Guard keyword. You can still field the terminators and bikes.







Somehow all the imperial players understand it, everyone's talking about mixed guard and space marine armies, and all the eldar players clearly get it because people are talking about dark reapers cruising around in starweavers. How is it that it's just the death guard players who can't read.


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zed
post Jun 19 2017, 07:22 AM
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QUOTE(khanoth @ Jun 18 2017, 08:10 PM) *

One of my mates is lamenting the fact that his 2000 point DG army is now worth only 750 points in 8th - no Obliterators, no Terminators etc...has pissed him off big time.

And sure the codex books will no doubt change this but that could be in another two years.


What are you talking about? they can still be marked as death guard. Reading under the death guard, it specifically says you can substitute the legion keyword with death guard. if you take the icon for 10 pts they cause nearby units to be -ive one to leadership.

Nearly every army has lost some big bonuses (demi companies for marines come to mind as an extreme example), but that is them re-setting the meta,


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khanoth
post Jun 19 2017, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE(Rice Array @ Jun 18 2017, 11:49 PM) *

You can still field the terminators and bikes. You don't need troops in 8th. The other dudes can still be fielded. I understand that for some gamers 'nerfed' is equivalent to 'cannot be fielded' but this is strictly untrue. You can still field the terminators and bikes.

The army isn't a 'secondary detachment'. You can still field the terminators and bikes. What is a 'secondary detatchment'. Do you know what you're talking about. You can still field the terminators and bikes. Why does the amount of money spent have anything to do with it. The miniatures still exist and are fieldable. You can still field the terminators and bikes. You can still field the terminators and bikes.

It is not necessary to spend more money to bring the valid army to the table, if anything the opposite is true. What is wrong with you. Do you read. Can you read.
Seriously you can still field the terminators and bikers. Has anyone actually read the rules. You can still field the terminators and bikers. You can still field the terminators and bikers. They just don't get the Death Guard keyword. You can still field the terminators and bikes.
Somehow all the imperial players understand it, everyone's talking about mixed guard and space marine armies, and all the eldar players clearly get it because people are talking about dark reapers cruising around in starweavers. How is it that it's just the death guard players who can't read.


Ian, did you miss the part where I said this is a mate's army? I'm no Xenophile tongue.gif

The bikes and termies make up the majority of his DG army and they can no longer have the Mark of Nurgle nor can they have the new Disgustingly Resilient special rule. So yeah, you can field them but they now suck.

Miniatures are expensive and rebalancing armies is going to cost people hundreds.Yeah this is a cash grab and a pretty mean one too. Much worse than just introducing a new faction that existing armies might have to take into account.


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QUOTE(Dice Array @ Jul 9 2014, 05:25 PM) *

Khanoth for moderator!



"Let me tell you something about humans, nephew: They're a wonderful, friendly people - as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working."

"But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those friendly, intelligent, wonderful people...will become as nasty and as violent as the most blood-thirsty Klingon." Quark from: The Siege of AR-558
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Hapless Peon
post Jun 19 2017, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE(Rice Array @ Jun 18 2017, 11:49 PM) *

You can still field the terminators and bikes. You don't need troops in 8th. The other dudes can still be fielded. I understand that for some gamers 'nerfed' is equivalent to 'cannot be fielded' but this is strictly untrue. You can still field the terminators and bikes.

The army isn't a 'secondary detachment'. You can still field the terminators and bikes. What is a 'secondary detatchment'. Do you know what you're talking about. You can still field the terminators and bikes. Why does the amount of money spent have anything to do with it. The miniatures still exist and are fieldable. You can still field the terminators and bikes. You can still field the terminators and bikes.

It is not necessary to spend more money to bring the valid army to the table, if anything the opposite is true. What is wrong with you. Do you read. Can you read.
Seriously you can still field the terminators and bikers. Has anyone actually read the rules. You can still field the terminators and bikers. You can still field the terminators and bikers. They just don't get the Death Guard keyword. You can still field the terminators and bikes.
Somehow all the imperial players understand it, everyone's talking about mixed guard and space marine armies, and all the eldar players clearly get it because people are talking about dark reapers cruising around in starweavers. How is it that it's just the death guard players who can't read.


But can they still field terminators and bikes?


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post Jun 19 2017, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE(khanoth @ Jun 19 2017, 10:56 AM) *

Ian, did you miss the part where I said this is a mate's army? I'm no Xenophile tongue.gif

The bikes and termies make up the majority of his DG army and they can no longer have the Mark of Nurgle nor can they have the new Disgustingly Resilient special rule. So yeah, you can field them but they now suck.

Miniatures are expensive and rebalancing armies is going to cost people hundreds.Yeah this is a cash grab and a pretty mean one too. Much worse than just introducing a new faction that existing armies might have to take into account.


They can take Mark of Nurgle; nothing stopping them from taking it.


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post Jun 19 2017, 12:01 PM
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It amazes me that some people just don't get it.


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morsla
post Jun 19 2017, 12:14 PM
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Sure, the bikes aren't T6 any more, but S4 guns would wound T6 just as easily as T5 now... also, they're now more resilient against S8/9 weapons smile.gif Not to mention having two wounds base, firing twice as many shots, and still having access to the Mark of Nurgle for that -1Ld banner. I think they're far from unplayable.

No, they don't get the 5+ special save that Plaguemarines get, but they've only really had access to that for 6 months.


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post Jun 19 2017, 12:15 PM
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QUOTE(khanoth @ Jun 19 2017, 10:56 AM) *

Ian, did you miss the part where I said this is a mate's army? I'm no Xenophile tongue.gif

The bikes and termies make up the majority of his DG army and they can no longer have the Mark of Nurgle nor can they have the new Disgustingly Resilient special rule. So yeah, you can field them but they now suck.

Miniatures are expensive and rebalancing armies is going to cost people hundreds.Yeah this is a cash grab and a pretty mean one too. Much worse than just introducing a new faction that existing armies might have to take into account.


I think what he is saying is that

you can field them but they now suck =/= His entire army is nerfed bruh

At least he can still use the models (albeit as the terrible terrible regular chaos guys everyone else who isnt deathguard has to use, $0 to outlay) I had a Sanguinary Guard army in 5th, now I can almost run them again.

I feel your pain (it was very quick to get over)

But wait it isn't you that is saying these dumb things, go tell your friend he is a dumbass.


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post Jun 19 2017, 12:29 PM
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This is what you get when you play a modern wargame--rules get updated and previously good units aren't as good, but other previously bad ones are good.

If you don't like it, continue to play the previous edition or don't play GW games (or pretty much any modern wargame).

It's not like this is a new thing. I knew someone who rage quit when the 2nd ed Ork codex came out because it invalidated his 1st ed Ork army. He went back to Napoleonics where this isn't an issue.
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khanoth
post Jun 19 2017, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE(Demon @ Jun 19 2017, 12:15 PM) *


But wait it isn't you that is saying these dumb things, go tell your friend he is a dumbass.


But he is part-owner of my local Good Games store armata_PDT_14.gif


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QUOTE(Dice Array @ Jul 9 2014, 05:25 PM) *

Khanoth for moderator!



"Let me tell you something about humans, nephew: They're a wonderful, friendly people - as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working."

"But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those friendly, intelligent, wonderful people...will become as nasty and as violent as the most blood-thirsty Klingon." Quark from: The Siege of AR-558
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Deb
post Jun 19 2017, 06:52 PM
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I am closing this topic. I just wanted to find out if the old legion books were still valid in 8th, the same with Forgeworld books.

The discussion has skewered off topic a lot, and what is being discussed should be in a completely different topic.


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khanoth
post Jun 19 2017, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE(Arch_Magos_Kasen @ Jun 19 2017, 12:01 PM) *

It amazes me that some people just don't get it.


missed you bruh...Mos Eisley has been soooo boring without you- Welcome Back! armata_PDT_37.gif



QUOTE(morsla @ Jun 19 2017, 12:14 PM) *

Sure, the bikes aren't T6 any more, but S4 guns would wound T6 just as easily as T5 now... also, they're now more resilient against S8/9 weapons smile.gif Not to mention having two wounds base, firing twice as many shots, and still having access to the Mark of Nurgle for that -1Ld banner. I think they're far from unplayable.

No, they don't get the 5+ special save that Plaguemarines get, but they've only really had access to that for 6 months.


6 months is a long time in the Grim, Dark Future of Eternal War...just sayin'


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QUOTE(Dice Array @ Jul 9 2014, 05:25 PM) *

Khanoth for moderator!



"Let me tell you something about humans, nephew: They're a wonderful, friendly people - as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working."

"But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those friendly, intelligent, wonderful people...will become as nasty and as violent as the most blood-thirsty Klingon." Quark from: The Siege of AR-558
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post Jun 19 2017, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE(khanoth @ Jun 18 2017, 10:05 PM) *


In other words...he hasn't spent over $600 over the past year for his army to become a "secondary detachment"


Only $600?

I spent over $600 on my unreleased rogue trader era tyranid aka the protonid, most expensive model purchase I've ever done, and a legit one too not a fake. Best bloody Tyranid Prime ever.

Did I turn around and lament the fact I couldn't run him in 6th ed when GW turned around and screwed the game so royally half the tournament scene worldwide just stopped playing over night? No. What about in 7th where I still couldn't field him as he is armed? No.

You say later on that he is part owner of a Good Games store. Does he also play 5 Colour Crack, aka Magic the Gathering? Because if so, he's probably spent thousands of dollars on that this year alone, so why the butt hurt? He knows how much these games and hobbies cost so why are you so pissed off also? You can stillf ield the army, it's just not as broken as it could be and this is a good thing because most armies got hitw ith nerfs across large chunks of their forces. Ohg look, the money grabbing detachment abuse tht GW had for the pasts everal years is gione, now you can play with whatever the heck youw ant - do you want to run 6 defilers in your army? Oh look, that's 1 detachment with a single HQ tax, pretty swish that. Your mate now has far more flexibility in what he can bring to the table, so sit down, take a breath and look at the lists again.

Me, I'm excited I can run my 27 mounted genestealer hybrids by using astra militarum rough riders with my genestealer cult. this is amazing and something that hasn't been able to be done by the rules since 1st edition 40k when the models were released. You could always proxy them as somethinge lse but this is one of the issues with tabletop games - not all models make it from edition to edition and even those that do don't always transitiona s favourably. Do you see us all bemoaning pyrovores sucking large tentacled appendages still? No, but they stilla ren't amazing like some people at GW profess wholeheartedly. But they are playable. And so is your mates cheap little force of man dollies. he just needs to man up and look at the rules again and work them in so as they are playable, and he can and they stillr etain their nurgle alignment.

How do you think the traitor astartes feel when you turn around and say they aren't true followers of Grandpa Nurgle because they aren't Deathguard? Jeez, have some respect for the marks!

QUOTE
This appears to be a blatant cash grab by GW- making sure that people have to buy more minis so they can actually bring valid armies to the table.


Blatant cash grab? They turned around and made a get you by army list for every single model they currently produce and had rules for in the previous edition including super heavies. To break into 7th ed you either became a hardcore pirate or you spent over $3000 US Dollars to get all the rules. Now, instead, you blow $200 Aud+whatever version of the core rules you want (you can dl them for free can't tyou?) and you have all the rules for everything ever.

GW FINALLY did something right - they showed they can publish a 200'ish page rule book for $40 Aud, something they should carry forth into the future as an option instead of charging everyone $83+ for a core codex and then throwing all these supplements at us that we HAVE to buy if we want to play with the models in their stores. Right now, $40 gets you the ability to do that as a whole for your faction (unless you are GSC/Imperial then it's $80).

Blatant cash grab? Open your eyes and stop whinging princess.


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"Don't try to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors, try to be better than yourself." - Faulkner.

QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Mar 21 2012, 10:40 AM) *

All of these things just smash you unforgivingly and theres nothing you can do to stop them. Its completely stupid to take this army the way it is, you will degfinately lose every game no matter how good you are.


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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 27th June 2017 - 12:03 AM